For your blog post this week, please read the following poem "Havisham" by Carol Ann Duffy and choose up to three questions to respond to
Also, remember to respond to at least two of your classmates' blogs! We are going to use these questions and comments as a jumping off point for our class discussion next week.
Background:
This poem is a monologue spoken by Miss Havisham, a character in Dickens' Great Expectations. Jilted by her scheming fiancé, she continues to wear her wedding dress and sit amid the remains of her wedding breakfast for the rest of her life, while she plots revenge on all men. She hates her spinster state - of which her unmarried family name constantly reminds her (which may explain the choice of title for the poem).
HAVISHAM
Beloved sweetheart bastard. Not a day since then
I haven't wished him dead. Prayed for it
so hard I've dark green pebbles for eyes,
ropes on the back of my hands I could strangle with.
Spinster. I stink and remember. Whole days
in bed cawing Nooooo at the wall; the dress yellowing, trembling if I open the wardrobe;
the slewed mirror, full-length, her, myself, who did this
to me? Puce curses that are sounds not words.
Some nights better, the lost body over me,
my fluent tongue in its mouth in its ear
then down till I suddenly bite awake. Love’s
hate behind
a white veil; a red balloon bursting
in my face. Bang. I stabbed at a wedding-cake.
Give me a male corpse for a long slow honeymoon.
Don’t think it’s only the heart that b-b-b-breaks.
in my face. Bang. I stabbed at a wedding-cake.
Give me a male corpse for a long slow honeymoon.
Don’t think it’s only the heart that b-b-b-breaks.
Structure:
The
poem is written in four stanzas which are unrhymed. Many of the lines run on,
and the effect is like normal speech.
- uses
many adjectives of colour - “green”, “puce”, “white” and “red” and
- lists
parts of the body “eyes”, “hands”, “tongue”, “mouth”, “ear” and “face”.
Sometimes the meaning is clear, but other lines are
more open - and there are hints of violence in “strangle”, “bite”, “bang” and
“stabbed”. It is not clear what exactly Miss Havisham would like to do on her
“long slow honeymoon”, but we can be sure that it is not pleasant.
Questions:
- Why does Miss Havisham use the word "spinster" to describe herself? Is she belittling herself by using such a derogatory term? Or is there a way in which this makes her stronger? What does Miss Havisham think about this word and its relevance to her?
- What is the effect of all of Duffy's enjambments? (If you don't know the meaning of this word, be sure to look it up!) Why does she break the lines of the poem so seemingly haphazardly?
3. Why does the poet omit Miss Havisham's title and
refer to her by her surname only?
4. What is the effect of “Nooooo” and “b-b-breaks”?
Why are these words written in this way?
5. What is the meaning of the image of “a red balloon
bursting”? What is the effect of the visual color words mentioned above? What is the effect of Duffy's use of parts of the body?
6.
Does the reader have to know about Great
Expectations to understand the poem? Explain your reasoning.
7.
Does Miss Havisham have a fair view of men? What do
you think of her view of being an unmarried woman?
8.
Perhaps the most important part of the poem is the
question “who did this/to me?” According to this poem, is Miss Havisham responsible for her own misery? How far does it support her feelings of
self-pity and her desire for revenge?
ReplyDeleteBeloved Sweetheart Bastard (Part 1)
In the poem Havisham, the author, Carol Ann Duffy acts as Miss Havisham from the novel Great Expectations by Charles Dickens to express and describe her cynical views of love, and her rather disturbed thoughts towards her once-fiancé, and all men in general. The word “spinster” refers to a woman who some may view as maritally expired because of her age. Evidently, Miss Havisham does not enjoy her spinster-state, and seeks revenge on all men after her fiancé leaves her unmarried and hence, a “spinster.” As a spinster, Miss Havisham sulks around in her wedding gown, displeased with herself. I think that she uses this word in a derogatory fashion because of her vengeful ideas, however, in today’s world, an unmarried woman above the age of twenty-seven I do not view as having a serious issue. Having the ability to do whatever one desires without the constant worry of another person, especially if that person is not the right person, is actually a privilege in my eyes. Although, taking into consideration that Miss Havisham may become lonely in her very large mansion all by herself, I think that she should just let love happen because as cliché as it sounds, no one can put an age on love. Miss Havisham discusses this word because she thinks that it is all she stands for. In other words, id she does not have a husband, she has nothing, and is nothing. Duffy’s enjambments not only allow the poem to be more structurally interesting, but I think they effectively show the cynical stream of consciousness running through Miss Havisham’s mind. The haphazard placement of these enjambments illustrates Miss Havisham writing this poem at first delicately and carefully, and then aggressively writing down an angry thought, without a care as to how it looks or abides by the traditional rules of poetry. I think the title of this poem omits “Miss” in her full name “Miss Havisham” because it makes her appear as a character from an old folk tale, and allows her to represent a much broader group of people. I think Duffy allows the name “Havisham” to symbolize a soul who may be troubled and cynical towards love and relationship. Additionally, Miss Havisham’s surname is a reminder of her absence of a marital partner, so titling the poem “Havisham” explains her aggression. The use of “Nooooo” and “b-b-b-breaks” in the poem illustrates Miss Havisham’s anger and trembling in her voice to in what otherwise would be a poem without madness and extreme emotion, and rather a depressing account of her failed attempt at love.
I disagree with you when you said that "no one can put an age on love" because, as much as this is true in today's world, it was certainly not true in Victorian era England. Also, Miss Havisham's views of man had turned so sour that she does not want to marry anymore.
DeleteThis is true. I intended to imply it as more of a general statement, when I was discussing today's world, but the way I worded certainly does sound like I'm applying it to her situation. You are correct that it is not true, or only would be true in very rare or select cases. When I say that "she should just let love happen", I'm looking at it in terms of what I think is the correct thing to do, not necessarily what she will do. As you mentioned, she probably does not want to get married because her perception of love was ruined by a poor relationship. However, I do not think it is fair to judge something off of one poor experience, so I think that she should not seek out love, but she should not attempt to completely remove it from her life. Although looking back at it now, as you said, unfortunately that it is not the most realistic thing to hope for her in her time period. I appreciate your feedback, and will adjust the wording in my original paper.
DeleteAlso notable, I said "no one can put an age on love", not "no one can put an age on marriage." So in theory if she were to have some sort of complete change in herself, she would be able to fall in love, but maybe not be married. When someone is older, they do not stop having feelings for others, in this case, she just can't signify these feelings with a proper marital ceremony. Again, when I said this, I was talking about it in terms of what I think she should do, meaning not dedicating her life to hatred, but living it to the fullest despite her prior experience.
DeleteGood, I like the fact that you respectfully disagreed with Sarah. And Sarah, I appreciate your thoughtful response to Jake's comment. Nice work!
Delete
ReplyDeleteBeloved Sweetheart Bastard (Part 2)
The addition of these words adds more emotional depth in the poem, beyond just sadness. “A red balloon bursting”illustrates a heart breaking or bursting with sorrow and hatred in my mind. I love the use of visual color words because they can represent emotions, in addition to adding description to an object. For example, red symbolizes a feeling of extreme emotions, like love or jealousy or anger, and yellow symbolizes corruption. The use of body in parts in Duffy’s writing allows the troubled soul Havisham a human-like appearance, to make her appear as a person. I do not think that readers of this poem need to read Great Expectations to understand it, however Dickens’ novel can allow for readers to gather a deeper meaning of Havisham. Aside from knowing the origin of the title “Havisham”, readers can understand the true insanity of Miss Havisham. For example in Great Expectations, Miss Havisham sets all of her clocks on the same minute (presumably of when she was supposed to be getting married), and even encourages her niece to “break their hearts”, “their” referring to that of other boys. However, the poem still does tell a very interesting story of a bitter woman, stuck in the past. I do not think Miss Havisham has a fair view of men at all. Pinning the flawed personality and morality of her fiancé on all men is completely incorrect. In the world, there are many bitter and unkind men and women, but there are also many perfectly nice people. Additionally, Miss Havisham views an unmarried woman as worthless and hopeless, but as I previously mentioned, the absence of a significant other can actually be quite relaxing and enjoyable. However, the society of the time most likely conditioned her to have such a low opinion of herself. The line “who/ did this to me?” although may seem to be just a rhetorical question, actually poses a very important question that unfortunately, Miss Havisham leaves unanswered. From her character, I think that Miss Havisham has many deep-ridden insecurities that perhaps force her to put blame partly on herself for her lack of marriage because I think that naturally, after a failed attempt at a relationship, people tend to look for problems in themselves instead of their partner. However, dominantly, it appears as though she blames her almost-husband, and as a result all men. The poem Havisham shows Miss Havisham’s deep hatred of herself and love, which I would not label as lightly “self-pity”, and more of an extreme loathing of one’s life. Her desire for revenge on others, as a way to place the blame on others is also very evident in this poem when Duffy writes “Not a day since then I haven't wished him dead”(Duffy 1). “Then” refers to the last time she saw “him”, her fiancé. In conclusion, Havisham by Carol Ann Duffy describes a cynical, vengeful woman who despises love (as in her eyes it is “Hate behind a white veil”) and men after her fiancé leaves her.
Misconceptions About Being Single: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_LMvOOlcY4
I like that you pointed out how Miss Havisham may have some insecurities that could be the cause of her sorrow. I never thought of it in that way but now that you pointed it out it makes sense. As you said she probably began to criticize herself when her almost husband left and wonder what she did wrong.
DeleteI definitely agree with you that Miss Havisham does not view men in a good way. All because of what her fiancé did, she groups all men as bad. Maybe If she tried for someone new, she would probably have a different view, but because of the rejection it caused her to break down mentally.
Deletei also agree that miss Havisham views men differently because of what her fiancé had done to her. But, do you believe that it is right for her to think that way about men because of something that happened long ago?
DeleteI think you are right about her insecurities. Where is there evidence of this in both GE and the poem?? Interesting...
DeleteHavisham's Hatred for Love
ReplyDeleteIn the poem “Havisham”, author Carol Ann Duffy writes from the point of view of Miss Havisham, a character in “Great Expectations” by Charles Dickens. Miss Havisham depressingly sits around in her house whilst wearing her wedding gown. She plots revenge on her fiance and all men in general. She harbors hatred for men and envisions gruesome and weird ways to harm them. In the poem she is only referred to as Miss Havisham to have a constant reminder that she remains unmarried. Her name brings her back to the dark day when she was supposed to be married. Miss Havisham definitely does not have a fair view of men. She bases her views of all men off of her traumatic experience with her once fiance. This is evident by her violent thoughts on how she will gain revenge. Miss Havisham wishes for a “male corpse for a long slow honeymoon”(Duffy). This shows how the pain and death of a man brings her happiness. She enjoys seeing men suffer which is very disturbing. Miss Havisham hates her state of being unmarried. She is in a constant state of sorrow and blames it on men wishing for revenge. Miss Havisham believes that her once fiance is the reason for her current state. Not only does she blame him but men in general. She feels as if she had no choice but to be in her current state due to her fiance. Miss Havisham pities herself very much and wants to be put out of her misery. She plans revenge on men and wants to be seen dead still in her wedding gown to show what they did to her. Miss Havisham seems to believe that she had no choice to react the way she did to her situation. Though it was very unfortunate she didn’t get married, Miss Havisham responded in an extreme way. To spend her whole life stuck in the day that she was supposed to get married is insane. It is quite obvious that her experience very negatively affected her mental health. This link shows how a breakup can be detrimental to your health as Miss Havisham shows but in an extreme case. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/divorce-stress_n_3428932.html
I agree with you that Miss Havisham feels as if she has no choice to stay in her current state of mind. Many people get affected mentally because of rejections like that, and it caused Miss Havisham to not even talk to people outside of her house, she isolated herself.
DeleteIt was very interesting that you mentioned divorce stress for this topic. I had never thought that the traumatic even on Havisham's wedding day would lead to actual mental health problems, but it now seems plausible.
DeleteI think that it is very interesting that you brought in how one's rejection (or one's complete and total betrayal by another in this case) can lead to serious psychological issues, and this is certainly evident in this case. Not only does Miss Havisham have a disturbing hatred of all men, but she is also obsessed with items relating to her almost-wedding. Instead of moving on with her life like most people attempt to do after they breakup with another person, she lives in the past, literally.
DeleteI agree that Miss Havisham does not have a fair view of men and bases all men on one bad experience that she had with he husband
DeleteI agree that she based her view on men because she had a bad experience with one but doesn't mean that she has to base a negative view on all men.
DeleteI agree with you that she makes all men equal to the one that broke her heart. Just because one man ruined her marriage all men are terrible human beings.
DeleteWhy do you think Miss Havisham was never able to move on with her life and instead mentally deteriorated? Was it something about her ? Or something else?
DeleteMiss Havisham’s Hard Times Dealing with Love and Rejection
ReplyDeleteThe Poem “Havisham” by Carol Ann Duff is told from the perspective of Miss Havisham talking about her feelings of her fiance and him not marrying her. (2.)When Duffy used enjambments and breaks lines randomly, it causes the reader to think that the thought is complete, but actually there is more. The randomness also caused you to continue to keep the sense of what the poets trying to tell you. (6.) I do not think the reader needs to know about Great Expectations to understand the poem, but then again, since I read it, I knew right away and had a better understanding. But also, reading the story would give you a lot of background which will also help you know what she is going through and why she would feel that way. (7.) I think that Miss Havisham viewed most men badly after that incident. She already did not like her brother, then her fiance would do something like that to her does not make her feel any better. Because of that she views men badly and does not even wish for any guest to visit her house, let alone any man. (8.) Miss Havisham believes that it is not her fault, but it is her fiance’s fault. After her fiance left her on her own wedding day, she felt as if he caused her to go in the mental state that she is in. The poem definitely shows that she wanted revenge, “Not a day since then i haven’t wished him dead” (Duffy Stanza 1, Line 1-2). Miss Havisham also felt very sadden that she would keep everything the same ever since that day she got the note, the poem said she would scream “NOOO” at the wall as her dress would yellow. She was very traumatized. Many people do not know how to deal with rejection, obviously seen in Miss Havisham’s case. The link shows how to cope with rejection. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/fighting-fear/201308/how-cope-rejection
why do you think Miss Havisham blames herself?
DeleteThough I do agree that she blames her once fiancé, I also believe as Sarah mentioned that she blames herself a little. She may be insecure about herself and that's why she remains the way she is.
Deletei also believe that the reader does not need to read Great Expectations for him or her to understand the poem, although it does help
DeleteHow would your reading of this poem differ had you not read the book??
Delete3. The author only uses Miss Havisham’s surname to show a detachment for the man who she almost married. The use of a surname is a way of bringing attention to the betrayal by Miss Havisham’s fiance. The entire point of the poem is a monologue of Miss Havisham’s about the betrayal of a man, so the man’s name should most certainly not be used. It also shows that Miss Havisham technically never married, which again is one of the main themes of the poem.
ReplyDelete6. I do not believe that the reader would have to read “Great Expectations” in order to understand the basic idea of the poem. From the context clues, you could figure out that the woman who is in the poem has been betrayed by a man (With something that has to do with a wedding), and that her heart had turned sour towards all men and that she seeks revenge on them for whatever happened. The reader may not understand the details of the poem, but they could probably determine the message that the poem is portraying, as well as the basic idea of the story that the poem is based on.
7. Miss Havisham does not have a fair view of man, because she bases her thoughts on a single man. The man who abandoned her caused Havisham to think poorly of all men, which is obviously biased. Havisham’s view of being an unmarried woman is understandable for the time period in which the story takes place, but not in today’s world. Havisham feels bitter about her life as a widow. This is understandable because in that time period, women did not have many rights and were more or less led by the men.
Here is a youtube video that describes Miss Havisham
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKL3dJo0fkU
I agree that the reader does not have to read Great Expectations to understand the poem, but do you think it would help if they did?
DeleteI agree with you that within her society, she was taught that not being married or associated with another man meant that she had no value. I also agree that the reader would not have to read Great Expectations to understand the poem, however, with the details of the story I think truly add to a central meaning of how she is unable to move forward in her life. For example, she has all of her clocks set to the exact minute she was betrayed, and although the poem mentions a wedding cake and dress, Great Expectations gives a better visual of how everything is exactly like it was on her wedding day.
DeleteI agree that the reader does not have to have read Great expectations to understand this poem
DeleteI believe that one would have to at least read some of Great expectations to fully understand the poem because the reader would have to know who Miss Havisham was and the state she was in.
DeleteI believe that the reader does not have to read but will gain a better understanding if they have read Great Expectations and will have a different point of view and know or how Miss Havisham's state of mind.
DeleteJake, you mention the time period again which I think is very interesting. What do you know about the Victorian time period and how does this relate to Miss Havisham's circumstances and reactions??
Delete1.Miss Havisham refers to herself as a “spinster”. She is belittling herself by using this term because she believes that her time to get married has come and gone, and now its too late for her. A spinster is an unmarried woman who is too old to be assumed to ever get marries. Miss Havisham had everything set up to get married, yet was betrayed by a man. Now all she feels is emptiness and hatred and refers to herself as being a spinster because the hole in her heart will never be filled.
ReplyDelete4. The effect of the “Nooooo” and the b-b-breaks is to get the feeling of sadness across. Using this language makes it seem like Miss Havisham is crying because often people stutter and sob when they are crying. These words portray a mood of sadness and loneliness.
6. The reader does not have to know about Great Expectations to understand the poem, however, it is easier to connect to the poem knowing Miss Havishams life style and the full story of her heart breaker. Without reading the story, one can pick up that a woman is heart broken and had anger and sadness towards a man for he betrayed her. Knowing the details of the betrayal and the effects of it because I have read Great Expectation, I better connect on an emotional level to the feelings of Miss Havisham.
2. Duffy’s enjambments have a certain effect on the story. They represent that mental state of Miss Havisham. The several run on sentences in the poem symbolizes that Miss Havishams thoughts are continuous, and there is never a time or a pause where she does not feel sad and angry. When there is a pause, they are often random. This represents her thoughts are all over the place, and very disordered.
When I was reading the enjambments I thought nothing of it in the beginning. I thought it was just the author who did not plan out their poem correctly and just went with it, but then I realized that Duffy purposefully put them in the poem to give some deeper meaning. They were put in so casually that I did not think that they could represent something, such as Miss Havisham's thoughts.
DeleteMelissa, what do you mean when you say that "Miss Havisham's thoughts are continuous..."? What would be the reason for this and what is the effect?
Delete1.Miss Havisham uses the word spinster to belittle herself, she feels that she is old and will never find a man. I think that in her using that derogatory term does make her stronger because she is being realistic with herself instead of sugarcoating the situation. Miss Havisham thinks this word relates to her because she no longer has a husband and now she is old with no one to love.
ReplyDelete7.I do not think that Miss Havisham has a fair view of men. She had one bad experience with a man and is now scornful towards men. I think if Miss havisham had met the right guy who treated her properly she probably would not have ended up the way she is now. I think her view of being an unmarried woman is kind of sad because she feels that being unmarried is an unhappy way to live and does not realize that not being wed isnt a horrible thing.
4. the effects of “ Nooooo” and “ b-breaks” shows the sadness and heartbreak that Miss Havisham is experiencing and is setting a mood that is gloomy.
6. i personally do not think that the reader has to have any prior knowledge of Great Expectations to understand this poem because the poem is stating pretty clearly that the person who wrote it was feeling sorrowful and experiencing heartbreak . I don't think any knowledge from the book would change the way the person sees the poem.
8. I think that Miss Havisham is responsible for her own misery because she is the one who kept all of her wedding memoirs around. She is always wearing her wedding dress, decorations, and the time the same no matter what, it's like time has not even changed anything. even in the poem it states “ Not a day since I havent wished him dead” and “ Spinster. I stink and remember. Whole days in bed cawing Nooooo at the wall; the dress yellowing”. if Miss Havisham had just tried to move on she would not have been as miserable as she is now.
I agree that Ms. Havisham is belittling herself in the poem and that if she tried to move on she would not be in so much pain. Her still hanging on to all of her wedding stuff and what she had is her own self-pity and that is no ones fault but her own. However, someone may have caused the pain to her but her self-pity and grieve is her fault.
DeleteI agree with you that Miss Havisham talks about herself as she really is and doesn't make her self different or "better". She refers to herself truly and like you said, doesn't sugarcoat herself
DeleteI agree with you that her views on being an unmarried woman is quite sad for she still holds onto possessions from their wedding day and refuses to let go.
DeleteI agree with you that she does not have fair view on men.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteHannah, can you explain your response to number 4 a bit more fully.
DeleteMiss Havisham
ReplyDelete2. Duffy creates enjambments to signify that the thoughts are not over yet. It shows how Miss Havisham’s negative thoughts about her fiancé and wedding day are not over and will continue on. This makes you pause and think for a minute about what could be coming up next. She breaks the lines of the poem the way she does, to keep readers on the edge of their seats.
4. The “nooooo” and the “b-b-breaks” shows the sadness of Miss Havisham. It shows how she is upset about how her heart is broken by a man who used to be her fiancé. These words also hint to readers that she may be crying because of her trembling and has a tough time speaking about what happened to her. When people cry they often have a hard time speaking and may drag on their words.
6. I believe that the reader does not have to know about Great expectations to understand the poem. Without reading the story, and only reading the poem a reader can still understand how frustrated and upset Miss Havisham is due to what happened to her on her wedding day. However, if the reader did read the poem they would have a better understanding of exactly why Miss Havisham is upset. If, the reader were to read Great Expectations before reading the poem he or she would have a more detailed description of what Miss Havisham’s frozen, in time life.
7. I do not believe that Miss Havisham has a fair view of a man. One person changed her view on all men for the rest of her life and this is not right. She is biased to all men because of something that happened to her long ago. I do not believe that this view of all men is right, after all everyone is not the same, everyone is different. Miss Havisham also views herself as a lower than others because of what happened on her wedding day. She thinks that she can go no where in life because of what happened. However, she should have taken what happened and put it towards
her future, which would have made her a stronger person.
I agree that Miss Havisham does not have a fair view on all men. I think that she may be overreacting to this whole situation, but then again I might not be able to understand her true love and passion for this man.
DeleteHere's a link to a video describing miss Havisham
Deletehttp://study.com/academy/lesson/miss-havisham-in-great-expectations-description-character-analysis-quiz.html
I like your idea about crying and I agree that is the effect of those words and sounds in the poem. What makes you think that she views herself as lower than everyone? Is there evidence of that in the book or in the poem?
Delete1. Miss Havisham uses the word “spinster” to describe herself as an unmarried woman. She loathes the fact that she is still unmarried and wishes that the man who has done this to her would die. By using this word she is belittling herself as just this old lady with no chances of getting married anymore. She was so excited to get married, but when the day came she was let down and now she won’t even leave her house. Miss Havisham thinks very poorly of this word. I can tell because in one line she asks “who did this to me?” inferring that she despises being a spinster. By keeping everything in her house the same as it would be if she was getting married Miss Havisham tries to forget that she is unmarried and giver her the illusion that it is still her wedding day.
ReplyDelete3. Miss Havisham omits her title because her surname is a constant reminder that she is still unmarried, which she despises.
6. I do not believe that you need to know about Great Expectations in order to understand this poem, but it may be helpful. Most of the things in this poem indicate to a wedding and some sort of heartbreak. For instance, the word spinster, “the dress yellowing”, “Love’s hate behind a white veil.”, “I stabbed at a wedding cake.”, and there are many more examples. All of these things indicate a wedding and point to violence. I think that you can understand the general idea of this poem without knowing too much about Great Expectations, however in order to fully understand the story there has to be some prior knowledge.
8. According to this poem Miss Havisham is putting all of the blame on someone else. She does not want to acknowledge that she could have prevented this and that she made mistakes. Mr. Jaggers warned Miss Havisham that she was putting too much power into this man’s hand, but she refused to listen. She feels that she is the victim of this whole situation and it gives her a reason for wanting revenge on all males. When she asks “who did this to me?” she shows that she pities herself. She describes herself as a spinster and states how she spends days cawing nooooo, then talks about how someone could put her into such a poor state. Miss Havisham is making herself miserable by isolating herself and trying to recreate her wedding day, but she does not feel that it is her fault.
I believe that one would have to read some of Great Expectations in order to fully understand this poem and the state of mind that Miss Havisham is in.
DeleteI believe that Miss Havisham does go by her surname, but not for it to be a constant reminder. I think it is so other people know and feel bad about her. I also agree that you do not need to have read the book to understand the poem and that Duffy does a good job with the background.
DeleteHow 3 women felt about being a spinster http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3109959/As-controversial-book-says-women-ve-never-wed-treasure-freedom-possible-happy-spinster.html
DeleteVirak, I like your direct connection to the novel and Jaggers. This tells me you are doing a close reading of both texts!
DeleteHere is a characterization of Miss. Havisham http://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/g/great-expectations/character-analysis/miss-havisham
ReplyDeleteI think Ms. Havisham calls herself spinster because she is saying that she is an old unmarried woman. In my opinion, I think that she is belittling herself because as she continues on in the stanza she relates it to her. She talks about how she lays in bed and her wedding dress starts to yellow and wear away. She sort of relates how she is weak and misses what she used to have. The effect of her duffy enjambments are that she breaks up the poem to show her hurt and loss so that we can almost feel her grievances and her words better. When she breaks up the words and poem into different stanzas we can see her pain and her grief. The poet omits Ms. Havisham and only uses her surname because the poet is try to belittle Ms. Havisham by using the surname. He omits her in a way showing that it is bad to not be married at such an old age and it is bad to be like her where she still grieves. The effect of those words being long and even broken up show her pain as well. When she stutters on the “broken” it may show her crying and the long “no” may also show her pain or her crying as well. As I often say, the “red balloon bursting” shows pain bursting in her face. She is in so much pain that it is sudden and loud. The effect of the words show the mood as often time color can show moods. he colors in the poem show the mood of the words she says and how she feels. Using the parts of the body show everywhere she is pained. The reader does not have to know about Great Expectations in the poem because in the poem you can infer her pain and what has happened to her. I do not think she has a fair view on men. The man she loved probably left her on her wedding day and that is why she has all the wedding things. She hates all men and wants to show them by hurting all men. I think since she is unmarried she realizes this about men but if she were married her views would have been so much different. According to the poem, you can infer that some man had caused all of this pain to her but she is still grieving over all of it. It supports her feelings of self-pity because she believes that the man that left her is the reason nobody likes her and has never married her. The link relates to the why women do not like to be alone.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/dating-tips-advice/why-don%E2%80%99t-men-hate-being-single-as-much-as-women-do/
I agree that Mrs. Havisham is somewhat belittling herself. She continuously brings up that day and always drags herself down because of that day. She complains that she is an old unmarried woman and makes herself feel less worthy since she is old and unmarried.
DeleteWhy do you think Miss Havisham chooses to belittle herself and be filled with self-pity? Do we know enough about her to infer an answer to that question?
Delete4: I believe that the phrase “A red balloon bursting in my face” Is meant to represent the happiness she once saw being ripped apart directly before her eyes. I believe that the color red was chosen because it is bright and cheerful. When Miss Havisham was married she was most likely very happy which is why she would want to remember that day forever. However something happened on that day in which Miss Havisham lost her loved one, this traumatizes her so much that the memories of her wedding day will always haunt her. However the feelings that Miss Havisham showed in this story led me to believe that she was very angry with her husband and the way that her wedding had gone and she stated that she wanted to kill “him” I believe that “he” is her husband and that the color red could possibly be related to blood.
ReplyDelete6:Yes, I believe that one would need to read Great Expectations in order to understand this poem. In order for someone to understand Miss Havisham’s character, one would first need to read Great Expectations to understand that Mrs. Havisham is an elderly woman who lives in a poorly lit house and surrounds herself with items from her wedding due to a traumatic event that happened at her wedding. The main character in Great Expectations, Pip, I payed by Miss Havisham to go to her house and entertain her by playing cards with a young lady named Estella, during these visits Miss Havisham is always in her wedding dress and Pip finds all different things from her wedding around her house, such as the dress she is wearing and the rotting cake. In this poem we hear about Miss Havisham’s anger about her wedding. We also learn a small amount about what possibly could have happened at her wedding.
http://www.shmoop.com/great-expectations/miss-havisham.html
What else do you think the color red represents besides happiness??
DeleteMiss Havisham’s State of Mind
ReplyDelete1. Miss Havisham describes herself as a “spinster” and also is belittling herself by using such a derogatory term because she believes that the time of her marriage has come and then soon blown away as she was betrayed a by a man at the time of her wedding. Miss Havisham thinks that the word spinster is relevant to her because she believes that she has gotten ready for her wedding, but then a man was disloyal to her. She also believes this because she is already too old to get married at her age.
3. The poet omits Miss Havisham's title and refer to her by her surname only because she is very old and that she is not going to get married at such an old age and that she still grieves to be married. Also it shows that she was never married and never changed her name as she was betrayed by her lover.
4. The effect on “Nooooo” and “b-b-breaks” in this poem shows that Miss Havisham is filled with anger and sadness as she was betrayed. This also takes an effect on the poem as reading this it feels like it is under pressure and breaking down as she grieves.
6. The reader of the poem do not need to read Great Expectations in order to understand the poem because if you were to read it you can infer that a woman is very lonely, angry, and sad as she is betrayed by a man who she was supposedly marry. To infer, you know that she is very bitter towards all men. If you have already read Great Expectations you can connect more to the poem and also have a better understanding as you know Miss Havisham and her whole story of how she was betrayed and know how she acts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Havisham
Can you be any more specific in your analysis of the b-b-breaks and Noooo??
DeleteI think the narrator of the poem uses the word spinster to show how Miss Havisham feels about herself, not to belittle her. Miss Havisham is disappointed in herself and she shows this by wearing her wedding dress daily, and by saying multiple times that she wanted to hurt the man that was to marry her. I think Duffy doesn’t really care about how the lines are broken up to show how Miss Havisham does not really care about anything anymore. The title refers directly to Miss Havisham’s surname because Miss Havisham never did get married and it implies that she was not worthy of her soon to be husband’s last name. By using “Nooooo” and “b-b-breaks” Duffy implies the lost feeling Miss Havisham has. It also adds suspense to the poem. The meaning of “a red balloon bursting” is actually Miss Havisham's heart bursting and it is a metaphor. The red is a symbol for blood. The reader does not need to have read Great Expectations to understand the poem because Duffy gives you enough background. It says she stays in her wedding dress, just like in the book, and that she hates men, just like in the book. I think Miss Havisham does not have a fair view on men. One man obviously did something to her, and this gives her a generalization of all men. By being an unmarried women, I think Miss Havisham is jealous of everyone that is married. The poem supports Miss Havisham's feelings throughout the story. I believe that Miss HAvisham is only part of the problem. Yes, that man left her, but she puts the pity on herself everyday.
ReplyDeleteAttached is an image of Miss HAvisham...
/Users/rachelblustein/Desktop/Unknown.jpeg
I completely agree with you! The red balloon most definitely does show that it is her heart and it burst because of a man. Because this "balloon" popped, she has an unfair and biased hatred towards men.
DeleteCan you think of any other times in any poems or other literature you have read where the color red is used to symbolize something??
DeleteAnd also what about balloons?? What do they symbolize in literature?
DeleteHatred from Havisham
ReplyDelete1.The term spinster is used to put down Mrs. Havisham. She is disappointed in herself and has a low self esteem. She has a hatred towards her husband or husband to be and constantly wears her wedding dress. This does not help her self esteem because she constantly reminds herself of the bad day she had.
5. Since her heart, the red balloon, was broken and popped she has a hatred for men and a whole in her heart. Since she was hurt by one man she makes a stereotypical decision to dislike all men. She holds onto a time where her heart was broken so she puts up a barrier so she is never hurt again. However, all this does is cause her more sadness and distress. The color of red is used as a comparison to blood. Duffy using parts of the body makes her comparisons tie more to Mrs. Havisham.
6. You do not need to read the book to understand the poem. While the book will clarify the poem, it is not needed to understand the poem by Carol Ann Duffy. There is enough description and background information for someone to understand the poem without reading the book.
7. Mrs. Havisham does not have a fair view on men. Just because one single man had hurt and made her go through a tough time in his life, she does not like any men. She has a stereotypical view on them even though not all men are like that. Since she is an unmarried woman, she most likely does not feel good about herself because no one has wanted to marry her. This does not make her proud of herself or feel like she is worthy in life.
Below is a link of Mrs. Havisham’s story and a song that goes along with it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSPG-RrYhL4
What other reasons do you think Duffy focuses on parts of the body??
DeleteAfter reading this poem from the point of view of miss havisham from great expectations, it requires the reader to have read the book beforehand because you would not truly be able to understand the context of the poem if you did not read about who she is in the book first. If the reader did not read the book, then they would not have a proper view of the circumstances that miss havisham lives in. I think that miss havisham does not have a fair view of men because of her obviously bad experience with men. She judges all men to be like her fiancé, and she treats them with disrespect and distrust. She thinks that it is shameful to be an unmarried woman. This is shown by the content wear of her wedding gown and many other clues throughout the story. According to the poem, miss havisham is mostly responsible for her own misery because she could have at least tried to move on. She could also be responsible for this because of the way she constantly reminds herself of the bad memories she has with her fiancé.
ReplyDeleteI happen do disagree. I believe that the reader of the poem would still be able to comprehend the poem, however it would just be a different interpretation.
DeleteI agree with you, but I believe the reader would be able to understand the poem because it is straightforward about Miss Havisham. Even so, if the reader wanted and in depth understanding about Miss Havisham's circumstances they would have to read the book before.
DeleteI also agree, but find the reader is provided enough information to comprehend the poem. It would be helpful to have all the specific information from the novel but it is not required to understand.
DeleteOK, but what do you all think specifically would be different in reading this poem cold vs. reading it with some understanding of the book??
DeleteHavisham
ReplyDelete4. The effect of “Nooooo” and “b-b-breaks” is to allow the reader to think as if Miss Havisham is really saying these words. It shows Miss Havisham's emotions towards her life. The words are written in this way to express the way Miss Havisham speaks because of the problem she had to deal with with her husband. This gives the person reading an idea to what Miss Havisham sounds like and what her true emotion is in this poem. These forms of the words give away her tone of speech so it is easier for the reader to follow and understand Miss Havisham.
6. In my personal opinion, I think the reader should know about Great Expectations to understand this poem. I say this because someone reading the poem may be asking, “who is Miss Havisham?” Or “what is the significance of this character?”. The reader may not fully understand Miss Havisham and how she is established because they have not read the novel Great Expectations. The book will give the reader a little bit more of an understanding of the character to the reader so the poem will make a little more sense.
No, I do not think Miss Havisham has a fair view of men. Just because one man in her past completely ruined her wedding day, she views all men to be terrible people. She can not trust any other men because of what her, what was supposed to be husband, did. Being an unmarried woman makes Miss Havisham’s view towards men even worse. Now, Miss Havisham feels as if no men can be trusted. She can no longer trust any men because the last time she thought she had trust, she unfortunately found out she didn't. Overall, no men are trusted or treated well by Miss Havisham because of unfortunate events in her past.
You talk about the words and how they mimic how she actually sounds when speaking them. Can you take this idea any further??
DeleteHavisham’s Hate
ReplyDelete5. When I heard the line “a red balloon bursting in my face, “ the one thing I thought that could symbolize was Mrs. Havisham,’s heart. When I pictured a red balloon, I immediately thought of a heart heavy with pain from a heartbreak. Although Mrs. Havisham’s heartbreak was not recent, it still hurt her just as much. When Duffy uses parts of the body in her poem, it brings into perspective how much hatred Havisham still has and always will. By using a red bursting balloon as a symbol for Mrs. Havisham’s breaking heart Duffy shows how severe her heartbreak was.
6. I do not believe that the reader of this poem has to know about the events going on in Great Expectations. As an outside reader, I think people would just look at this poem and think someone had a bad experience with an ex husband or boyfriend. Although Carol Ann Duffy makes connections to the book such as the “dress yellowing” she does not write her poem so that you have no idea what is going on if you were to not have read Great Expectations. I of course see the links between the poem and the story however, it is not imperative to read the book to be able to understand and interpret the play.
7. I do not believe that Mrs. Havisham has a fair view of men. Due to her poem, she seems to look at men with such hatred and disgust. However, she has only planned on getting married once. Since she has never moved on from that day, she will forever look at men as terrible people who are set out to ruin women’s lives. Mrs. Havisham seems to be quite miserable. Being an unmarried woman she seems lonely and harsh, not letting many people in. In the poem she talks about wanting her ex husband dead for a while now. Unless she let go of the hatred that she had for her “beloved sweet bastard” she never seems to give men another chance, Therefore she has a bias that all men are terrible people and cannot be trusted.
How do the body part references show hatred??
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ReplyDeleteHavisham Poem
ReplyDelete6. I don’t think it would be necessary for the reader of this poem to have read Great Expectations in order to understand this poem. It’s very straightforward in explaining her heartbreak over her husband, but if the reader wanted an in depth understanding of why she felt this way towards the man. It is true that we see how heartbroken she is over this man, but it isn’t very clear why she is so upset at him. So it really depends on if the reader wanted to understand the whole meaning of the poem instead of the surface of the poem with just reading it. To understand the causes of her emotions and why she is so heartbroken is what one would know if one were to read Great Expectations, otherwise having to read Great Expectations isn’t necessary.
4. The words “Nooooo” and “b-b-breaks” are used in a way to communicate to the reader how heartbroken she is, to come across with great emotion. They’re to express her feelings of anguish and how hurt she is that this man made her heart so feeble and has left her in a state of revenge and devastation. The words are stated in such a way to evoke the emotions that she feels after the event. They’re written in a literal sense, it’s as if she were to speak these words aloud it would be pronounced this way as her heart and head are filled with vengeance and distress, seeing as this man has betrayed her on what appears to have been her wedding day. It’s words written like this to add a flare of drama to her pain and anger.
3. The poet uses Miss Havisham’s surname to make it known that she still remains unwed. It is to put a bitter reminder over Miss Havisham’s head that her husband had left her on their wedding day.
7. Miss Havisham’s view on men is one that is unfair. Because of her experience with her husband who had left her on the day of their wedding she has a bias towards men. Her one experience with her husband has led her to believe that all men have themselves set on betrayal and breaking a woman’s heart. Because of this she hasn’t gotten around to seeing if this is true, it is most unfair for it is not all men that are this way. I think her views upon herself being an unmarried woman are normal, for she now has a bitter outtake on life. Which is a fair response to the turn of events which led to when her husband had deserted her on their wedding day. She refers to herself as a spinster as a derogatory term and recalls all her emotions of betrayal and vengeance towards her husband. She is reminded with her very name that she is unmarried and exclaims that she stinks and still remembers. But I think she should open up herself seeing as she is reminding herself of that day with the clocks stopped at that certain time, the cake is left in its place, and the wedding dress she still wears. She shuts herself out in a mansion filled with vast space and has become a woman of isolation which is what I think to be unhealthy.
Here is a video with backstory about Miss Havisham: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMpZjB0ieCU
I also don't think it is necessary to read the book to understand the poem.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI agree that it is not necessary to have read the book to understand the points of the poem. Enough key information is provided to understand that a woman is angry and had her heart broken by a man.
DeleteI agree that it's rude to refer to Miss Havisham as just Havisham due to her obviously not being married
DeleteI like your explanation of the effect of the words in #4. How is her isolation unhealthy? I would like you to speak to that idea a bit.
Delete1.Miss Havisham uses the word “spinster” to describe herself as someone who is unmarried. She is belittling herself by calling herself that. I wouldn't say calling herself a spinster is her way of making herself stronger because someone who is trying to make themselves stronger wouldn't wear their wedding dress. an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage. She believes that her time to get married are long gone. In my opinion, I think she described herself as that she wasn’t a spinster once and was about to get married and due to an unfortunate event that did not happen to her. She thinks she is relevant to this because the definition of spinster is “an unmarried woman, typically an older woman beyond the usual age for marriage” and she is unmarried old women
ReplyDelete6. The reader doesn’t have to read Great Expectations to read the poem because you can learn about Miss havisham right in the poem. However, I feel reading the book gives a better understanding on Miss Havisham. By the poem you learn that Miss Havisham is an unmarried old lady who was doubled crossed by a man. We also know that she always wears her wedding dress. By reading the book we get more details on Miss Havisham and a little bit about her wedding day.
7. Miss Havisham does not have a fair few of men. By reading the background information it tells us that “she plots revenge on all men.” She thinks all men are the same and due to being betrayed my a man she lost must have lost trust in all men to have such thoughts.
8. According to this poem I don’t think Miss Havisham is responsible to what happened to her because she was betrayed. For someone who is still wears her wedding dress, still has her decorations up, and still has the wedding cake something very bad must of happened to her to be in such state. She does have self pity for herself and storing or “plotting” a lot of revenge.
http://www.shmoop.com/great-expectations/miss-havisham.html
What does her revenge consist of? Is this revenge evident in the poem??
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ReplyDeleteMiss Havisham
ReplyDelete1.) I believe the narrator does not say “spinster” to belittle her, but to show how she feels about herself. It shows how Miss Havisham is disappointed in herself because of the way she never changes her house, wears her wedding dress daily, and how she is angry at the man that was supposed to marry her. She thinks of this world very poorly because of what it did to her by having her not get married.
6.) I do not think the reader needs to know about the novel Great Expectations because the poem provides enough information to understand what is happening. Of course reading the book and having every little detail could have been beneficial but would not be required to understand the point of the poem. Since in the poem it mentions the heartbreak and you can learn from reading it that a woman is very lonely and angry at a man. A wedding is indicated by “Love’s hate behind a white veil”, which refers to the hatred she has for the man leaving her on her wedding day.
7.) Miss Havisham is not fair to men because she has had one bad experience with a man. This man changed her perspective of all men into something negative. She should not feel that all men act the same because everyone is different and she has no reason to believe that all men will do the same. Because of what this one man did to her she now feels lower than everyone else. She thinks that because of what happened with her wedding that she can not go anywhere or do anything with her life. By not changing anything in her house or her dress she is just constantly reminding herself of the heartbreak that she faced on her wedding day. She traps herself in her house and it has not done her any good so far.
Below is a link to a motivational picture that would teach Miss Havisham a good lesson on moving on.
https://www.google.com/search?q=moving+on+quotes&espv=2&biw=1600&bih=799&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiS5_C-jMnKAhVosIMKHZtHA2oQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=vjKs9pNedUL12M%3A
Miss Havisham does have a negative outlook on men due to her own personal experience
DeleteWhat do you think prevents Miss Havisham from moving on?
DeletePoem on Havisham
ReplyDelete5. In the poem, Miss Havisham describes a red balloon bursting in her face. I feel as though this symbolizes her heartbreak. When you think of love, you associate it with love and hearts. Miss Havisham is heartbroken so therefore her "red balloon" was bursted when she her husband left her. At the end of the poem, it says " Don’t think it’s only the heart that b-b-b-breaks.”. The author through the the poem is trying to highlight when one is afflicted by heartbreak not only is their heart and soul affected but your whole body is affected. Miss Havisham describes in the poem how her eyes have hardened from her grieving. In essence, heartaches do affect many greatly. It can let you slip into depression and affect you physically and mentally. In the book, Miss Havisham is obviously not all mentally there and her hurt is taking a toll on her ever since.
7. In my opinion, Miss Havisham does not have a fair view on men. Not all men act out irrationally and treat women poorly. I think Miss Havisham gives in a lot to her own heartbreak. When a man breaks your heart, yes it hurts, however you're hurting yourself more by never moving on with your life. Obviously in her case it is more intense because she is living in a nut house. She has let her whole life deteriorate from her house to her mental state. There is nothing wrong with not being married despite the standards that are expected of each other in our society. Miss Havisham could have been married again and had a happy life apart from this man who hurt her. Like said before, she is doing this to herself. Miss Havisham faces an internal conflict of not wanting to move on from her previous husband.
Here is a link to a website with poems about heartbreak:
https://m.poets.org/poetsorg/text/poems-about-heartache-and-difficult-love
I like your comment about the whole body being affected. Is there any other evidence of this in the poem?? in terms of the whole body being affected??
Delete