You certainly don't have to watch the tutorial, but feel free to if you'd like:
Please watch this link to the 2012 version of Great Expectations at the point in which Pip is taken to meet Miss Havisham for the first time:
In your blog comment this week, please use the following as guiding questions, but remember you DO NOT have to answer all of them. They should just be used as a jumping off point for your response.
I am trying to make the questions a bit more broad so that you have more freedom and creativity in your responses.
- What did you think of the casting choices in the clip you watched?
- What about the background/setting?
- Why do you think the characters Miss Havisham and Estella especially are still mentioned in our modern culture?
- Think about the female characters in Great Expectations. Where are they located? What are their personalities like? What do you think Dickens is saying about gender through his characterizations of female characters in the novel?
- Is there anything else from the Socratic seminar discussions on "Havisham" that you would like to bring up or question?
Beauty Behind The Madness (I know that’s what The Weeknd titled his album but I thought it worked nicely here)
ReplyDeleteIn the recent Socratic Seminar, the class made several interesting points concerning a deeper side of Miss Havisham’s character. Because of Miss Havisham’s eccentric lifestyle, meaning occupying days in a yellowing wedding gown amongst decaying tapestries and a rotting, thirty-year-old wedding cake, it can become easy to assume that Miss Havisham’s identity consists of only insanity and her strange obsession with the past. However, as Steve pointed out, lying behind Miss Havisham’s madness is a person. Her insanity consumed her old self, after the note she received at twenty-to-nine. Zari and Leah also shared an interesting perspective about how Miss Havisham lies to herself about how she feels, and as a result of this, she becomes unable to come to terms with how she actually feels. For example, Miss Havisham, as illustrated in both the poem and the novel, habitually puts blame on all men for what happened to her, and her current emotional state. I agree with Zari and Leah that underneath all of this self-proclaimed hatred, she probably hates and blames herself more than she hates her ex-fiancé. Most of the time when people go through a breakup with someone they truly care about, they look to put the blame on themselves, even if they did nothing wrong. I think that Miss Havisham experiences this but denies it. If I could add one more idea to the seminar, I would discuss the use of the color yellow. The color yellow in the Great Gatsby symbolizes corruption through the character Daisy (daisies are yellow on the inside but white on the outside), and the car (if you have not read it or seen the movie, I won’t spoil it for you). The yellowing wedding dress I think also represents the corruption of Miss Havisham’s life, as her dress fades over time. In Great Expectations, Dickens portrays a majority of his female characters (with the exception of Biddy) as awful, hot-tempered, selfish women. For starters, the first female character introduced, Mrs. Joe, acts terribly toward Pip by making him drink tar and punishing him very cruelly, and applauds herself for raising him, as if her parenting skills saved the entire human race. Spoiled, and judgemental, Estella comes across in the story as an ungrateful and unloving young lady. As previously mentioned, although her character may have been different at a different point in time, Miss Havisham acts absolutely mad. I think that Dickens implies that terrible traits such as these (fiery, selfish, insane, conceited, judgemental) are gender specific to women, which is a statement I completely disagree with. It remains unclear whether Dickens himself held this opinion, or if he attempts to portray society’s view of women through his writing, but I will say that Dickens did not always treat women very nicely. For example, he cheated on his wife when he thought she had become too fat after giving birth to TEN children (seems a bit ridiculous to me).
Beauty Behind The Madness (Part 2)
ReplyDeleteHowever, looking at Great Expectations without prejudice towards Charles Dickens, Dickens actually created some very interesting characters even when analyzing them in today’s world. Miss Havisham’s character, although exaggerated, still applies to people in today’s world. Someone who feels the pain of betrayal, knows the same pain of Miss Havisham, meaning they know how it feels to feel angry, and then devastated, and then vengeful, and then devastated again. The difference between most people and Miss Havisham is that most people become able to move on with their lives, at least physically. In the modern world, Miss Havisham’s relevance comes from her relatable, though extreme, emotions. Similar to Miss Havisham, the character of Estella also frequently appears in today’s world. Evidently, Estella has become very conditioned to getting what she wants, and not only becomes spoiled, but also judgemental of those in a lower financial situation. Also notable is Estella’s unwillingness to love, which I find fascinating. All of these traits have been embedded in her by Miss Havisham, which symbolizes how parents can be deemed responsible for some of the major character traits that develop in their children. In today’s society, we often see how parents give their children what they want, which makes them spoiled, and also how a parent's’ relationship or prior relationship can shape the child’s perspective on love. In other words, I think these characters are still relevant because they still apply to people’s situations today. In conclusion, the Socratic Seminar left me thinking about Great Expectations and the true personality of several characters.
The Great Gatsby Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rARN6agiW7o
You’ll notice a lot of yellow (look out for the car) if you haven’t seen or read it (you probably should it’s pretty bomb and so is the soundtrack).
How people are affected when their parents divorce:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9JkKmQiqA0
I much enjoyed reading your post and liked how you deeper evaluated the symbolism in the story that further characterizes Miss Havisham.
DeleteI agree with Melissa that your post was very enjoyable and interesting to read. The title is not one I understood at first but after ready your post it came together for me and I think it is a perfect fit.
DeleteAfter reading the part about Dickens cheating on his wife, it gave me an unnderstanding onto why he would characterize the women like he did. Back in those days, they did not care for women, and it showed through what jilt of Miss Havisham and Dickens' life.
DeleteI also agree with Melissa, you had a really great post and really gave a better insight into Miss Havisham
DeleteThanks for all of your input :)
DeleteYour post broke down the character of Miss Havisham very well by using things that not only relate to Great Expectations but other books such as the Great Gatsby. I really enjoyed how you mentioned a color that symbolized a deeper meaning.
DeleteI appreciate your feedback :D
DeleteI think your title is so relevant to Miss Havisham and ironic too. Your ability to write is amazing and I love how you make such great connections and analyze things so well!
DeleteThank you so much Zari! I really appreciate that. I feel the same way about your writing and analysis :)
DeleteAs far as casting choices go, I only really know of the actor who played as Miss Havisham. The only reason that I know of this actor is because she played as Belatrix LeStrange in the Harry Potter movies. This is relevant because it shows that the actor has a talent for acting as someone who is crazy and weird. This perfectly fits the role of Miss Havisham, therefore it is a good casting choice. I feel as though the director of this movie did the set very well, as it gave me the same feeling that I felt when I read the passage that the scene was based on. It gave me an eerie feeling and a feeling of uncertainty and confusion, which was well portrayed by the director of the movie. Miss Havisham and Estella are mentioned so much in our modern culture due to the fact that they are two interesting characters in a critically acclaimed story. Also, people today enjoy things that stand out, which I believe that Miss Havisham is. Finally, our modern culture focuses on Estella because she is very much like many characters in more modern stories. Characters that act like her are seen in many different movies and books. One major point that I would like to bring up from the socratic seminar discussion is the topic of how Havisham really thinks of the man who abandoned her. In the socratic seminar, it was alluded to that Miss Havisham may still have feelings for the man who abandoned her. We discussed whether or not Havisham would want her lover back if he were to come back. Personally, I believe that Havisham does still have feelings for the man, simply because she cares about him enough to live in pain because he left. I find this to be proof enough that Havisham still wants to be with the man. The following link is to a Wikipedia article which talks about things such as cast and production for the movie Great Expectations:
ReplyDeletehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Expectations_(2012_film)
I also knew only the actress of Miss Havisham, and I agree that she fit the role quite well, however you can't judge the actors on if you know them or not.
DeleteThe two clips about Miss Havisham on this week's blog has really set a good visual of her character. I personally like the casting choices, especially that of Miss Havisham. The actress who plays Miss Havisham is a bit off and quirky much how I pictured her character to be. I also agreed with the actor who plays Pip for he is young, undeveloped a little scrawny. However, I pictured Estella to be a little older and mature, I think she looks younger in the movie. The setting the director put together was very accurate. The long, dark stairwell and the candles is exactly what I picture while I was reading the story. The little details were there as well, such as Miss Havisham's wedding dress was big, not subtle to match her character in that she is very extreme. Everything matched up as the novel, Miss Havisham was sitting in her wedding dress in front of a mirror with disheveled hair. Although it is much like how I pictured, I would have added more decoration in her room. There really was not anything in it but the single mirror and table, I pictured more items from her wedding spread around the room. The three socratic seminars we had in class were all very interesting a brought up good points about Miss Havisham. The most interesting to me and a point that was reoccurring, is that Miss Havisham loves to hate the man that left her. She could move on if she really tries, but she dwells on the fact that he left her, and it has become her life. The poem Havisham by Carol Ann Duffy shows evidence of this claim with all the oxymorons such as “Love hates behind a white veil…” Having not many life experiences, it is hard to connect to how Miss Havisham feels, and how you can love to hate someone.
ReplyDeleteI agree that this actress was quirky like how I also pictured Miss Havisham but I do not think it was the best choice. I agree that Estella's character was not the best fit either.
DeleteThe actress who played as Estella was an ok age, as it is only the first time that Pip went to see Havisham. At this point Pip was young, and therefore Estella was as well. If anything, I would have made Pip seem younger.
DeleteI agree, Pip's body type was what I thought of him. Little and also Scrawny.
DeleteI agree, the person who played Miss Havisham did a good job on acting a little bit off like Miss Havisham.
DeleteI agree because the actress did do a good job playing Miss Havisham, she just was not the right person for the job.
DeleteI found an image of a quote I think very well fits Miss Havisham's feelings. http://s5.favim.com/orig/69/i-hate-you-love-quote-textography-Favim.com-625514.jpg
ReplyDeleteHavisham’s Heartbreak
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the clip of Miss Havisham meeting Pip I realized that I had a different image in my mind. I pictured her skin to be more wrinkly and her hair to be pure white and gray from stress over the years. I also pictured her hair to be pulled back more elegantly with a hint of distress because she is very wrapped up with her supposed to be wedding day. For the casting of Miss Havisham I would have chose an older woman. Even though Miss Havisham might not be that old, I expected the stress and bad hygiene to take a toll on her. Just like Miss Havisham, I did not think that Estella’s character was great for the roll either. She had a different color hair than I pictured and she had a lighter complexion than I imagined for her to have. Someone younger and with brown hair, I feel, would have fit the part better. As for the setting, it fit perfectly to the story. The house is dark, dreary, dusty, and dirty. There is only one lantern lit from what the viewer could see. Besides that one lantern, the house matched Miss Havisham's personality which is gloomy. I think that the author is trying to display the message that in that time women depended on men. Miss Havisham was so caught up in having a husband and Estella had to be set up with a boy to play with. However, in this day and age it is clear to see that women do not need men to be happy or successful in life. Either way, women can be happy but the author had a different mindset. Dickens was writing this during a different time period so the thoughts on this topic were different then than they are now. The first link is how the actress in the clip provided looked. The second link is how I pictured Miss Havisham to be.
https://www.google.com/search?q=helena+bonham+carter+miss+havisham&rlz=1CASMAH_enUS654US655&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=657&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGtIr2ke7KAhWMND4KHbZ3AWYQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=BDjUASPJbCOe0M%3A
https://www.google.com/search?q=miss+havisham&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=657&site=webhp&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwipmKqaku7KAhXEaT4KHZrGAWAQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=CP_ye0v4k2EjHM%3A
I agree with you that Havisham should have appeared much older than what she was, as I too pictured her much more wrinkled and old. I also pictured her yelling in the book, rather than calmly talking.
DeleteI also agree with you. The choice of actors for all three of the characters seemed off to me. Mrs. Havisham should have definitely appeared to be older by the description in the book. I happen to disagree when you say the setting is perfect. Miss Havisham is stuck in time, it does not mean she cannot clean or have working lights. In fact, we as readers see Pip cleaning the floor!
DeleteI agree with you, i think that they should have casted an older women for the role of Miss Havisham. I also expected Estella to look different
DeleteI don't think she should have been older, I just think that she should have appeared more stressed. Like you said in your blog, she should have more wrinkles and also spots under her eyes to indicate some distraught and lack of sleep. This probably would've given the person watching the sense that she has experienced something terrible.
DeleteHavisham is Stuck
ReplyDeleteThe clip of Pip in Miss Havisham’s house caught me by surprise. It is not at all what I pictured from the book, and Miss Havisham and Estella did not look anything like I imagined. I pictured Estella to be a long brown haired girl that was very tall. I understand this isn’t in the time of today’s world, but that is where it gets confusing. Pip has the hair style like the “Justin Bieber,” which is a very modern day style. This contradicts the appearances of both Miss Havisham and Estella to Pip. I also pictured the house to be a lot fresher and less gloomy. I think that the clip puts a big stereotype on women. First of all, Estella asks a lot of questions, which almost made it seem like women were very nosey. The big thing the book does is it generalizes women into Miss Havisham. Because I know this, I almost found the way they portrayed Miss Havisham offensive. She never blinked and her eyes bulged out of her head. Miss Havisham stereotype Estella over and started to pet her head. All of these things generalize women into creepy people. I do not think all women are crazy like that, and I do not believe I know anyone who would sit in their wedding dress for days after days and have the clocks stopped at a certain time. For these reasons, I believe that the stereotype of women in the clip is incorrect. I have one question left from the socractic seminar on “Havisham.” Why is Miss Havisham stuck and why can she not move on? I believe she is stuck between a rock and a hard place and either way, she will get hurt. Attached is a link of a picture of the dining room table in Miss Havisham’s house.
https://janeaustensworld.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/great_expectations_2011_bbc_behind_the_scenes_01.jpg
I agree, the clip did not give me what I imagined. I pictured Miss Havisham to be an older lady, and I also pictured that Pip's hair would be kind of messy and such due to him being poor and young.
DeleteI think that the clip was pretty accurate for the most part on the house. It was dark and gloomy but I do agree that it was a little off. I expected the house to be bigger and more open.
Delete“Digging Deeper into Great Expectations Chapter 8 from the Video”
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the video, it brought me back to the early chapters of Great Expectations. When I read Great Expectations, I envisioned Miss Havisham as an older lady than what the clip showed. In the clip, Miss Havisham, to me, look in her mid to late 30’s. Since she describes herself as a spinster, she shouldn’t look young like so. I thought the casting for Estella and Pip was good though.The setting was very good, it caused you to feel eerie. The dark spots, the dust, and old furniture helped you to think back on the book’s description of Miss Havisham's house that was stuck in time. The clip also included a lot of features from the book, while most movies do not sometimes. I found it interesting though, how quick the scene walking to Miss Havisham's room was, I thought it would have more dialog, but then again, Pip was shy.. I think that for days like today, it's quite rare to have the same situation Miss Havisham and Estella have. But I believe that they are mentioned in our modern culture because people feeling the same way as Miss Havisham could go as far as doing anything, like manipulating people for revenge. Looking back at the characters in Great Expectations they are usually working behind the scenes cleaning, cooking, or taking care of the house. While most of the male characters have nice jobs. The author did make Estella an outspoken person which does contradict to how people then thought about women. Dickens is trying to say how back then women were treated, and how they could not do as much as men. As I read other blogs, Sarah Sylvia pointed out that Dickens cheated on his wife when he thought she was too fat. That shows in a way how people at that time felt towards women. And still today, some people would do the same.
This Link is like the one from the blog, but an older version, I personally like this one better especially due to the fact Miss Havisham looks about the right type of age: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dygXIIUBCvg
I was also shocked to see how young Miss Havisham was in the video. I imagined her to be much older than she was in the movie
DeleteI think it is interesting how you pointed out that although Miss Havisham describes herself as a spinster even though Charles Dickens probably intended her to be in her 50's. It shows how people were forced to grow up and expected to make serious commitments from a very young age,compared to today's world. Thanks for that name drop btw
DeleteI like how you mentioned that people today can be sort of like Miss Havisham in a way but on a much smaller scale. Getting revenge against an ex is something people do today and this is like Miss Havisham but not as extreme.
DeleteI am very glad that this part of the movie included everything that was in the book, even the clock that had the time stopped. I honestly hate when movies forget to put important details in or just straight up leave them out, so this made me very happy.
DeleteAfter watching the movie clip I felt that the casting choices were great ,whoever played Miss havisham fit the role perfectly. The actress who played her is known in many other movies for being able to pull off a dark and strange character and she definitely didn't disappoint in this movie. The director managed to set the scene just right, he added all of the eerie elements that the book has described from the dilapidated furniture, poor lighting,and the general creepy vibe that the house gave off. I think that Miss Havisham and Estella are mentioned in today’s society because they were major characters in such a popular book and some people could possibly relate to them, not exactly because their characters are quite extreme , but some people could relate to being heart broken or having a difficult childhood. In Great Expectations Charles Dickens portrays most women as snippy and rude, we see this in the beginning chapters with Mrs. Joe and Estella who were both very short with pip. Mrs Joe would always yell at pip and call him ungrateful, Estella was aware of his feelings for her and just seemed to brush them aside, and Miss Havisham was shown as a crazy lady who was caught up in the past . Charles Dickens portrayed most women as angry, crazy and unpredictable. One thing I would like to bring up from the socratic seminar was Miss Havisham's relationship with men. After the incident with her husband she seems to group all men into the same category and thinks that they are all bad.She took one bad experience with a guy who she loved and let that determine the way that she would treat guys the rest of her life. Instead of moving on from the whole thing Miss Havisham just lives in the past and still dwells on that terrible day.
ReplyDeleteI didn't know how to relate Miss Havisham and Estella to today's society, but you made it much more clear and I can see where you're coming from.
DeleteHavisham stuck in time.
ReplyDeleteI believe that the casting choices chosen by the filmmaker could be improved. I thought that the lady who played Miss. Havisham could have been older. In the story, she is conveyed as an older women and I thought that the cast member who payed her could have been older. However, I do believe that the actress played her part well. Her quirky personality is what I thought Miss. Havisham was like. I also thought that the character who played Pip was well chosen. I thought of pip to be small and scrawny because of the way he lived as a poor boy, and he was just that. I thoght that the background and setting chosen by the filmmaker of the video was accurate. The house was dim and dreary, lit up by some candles. This reflects the mood that is conveyed by the book. While reading HE book you imagine a house that is dark and unwelcoming and this is exactly what the video conveys to viewers
An Interesting point brought up in the Socratic seminar was when someone said how Miss Havisham loves to hate on her ex fiancé. She doesn't want to have anything to do with him, but on the other hand all that Miss Havisham thinks about is this man. Which leads me to another point that found interesting from the seminar about how Miss Havisham puts herself in the place that she is and she contributes to her sorrow. She gets stuck in the madness from her home and is surrounded by things that make her unhappy. Miss Havisham surrounds herself with memories from the day of her wedding, this only leads to more anger and hate. I feel as if she needs to change the way she is living so she can have a better life.
video about miss havisham https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdNziYOfeyU
DeleteWomen In Great Expectations
ReplyDeleteThis video very accurately displays the images that were going through my mind while reading Great Expectations. The way Miss Havisham is dressed and the setting of the house just give me this sense of creepiness that the book would not be able to give me. Especially Miss Havisham because of the way she is portrayed in here. Charles Dickens describes Miss Havisham as this devastated lady who wants to wreak havoc on every man and this scene just adds more to this description. There is not much I know here about Estella from this video other than the fact that she is rude. For example, when Mr. Pumblechook asked if Miss Havisham wanted to see him Estella cut him off before he could finish his sentence. However, in the book Estella is stated to be a cold hearted girl women who was raised for the purpose of being love, but not being able to give love back. Dickens generalizes women in his book with very poor character traits. I think that he is using Miss Havisham and Estella to give a bad image of women, but I do not necessarily know if that is true. Today, I can personally say that I've never known a person as insane as Miss Havisham or as stuck up as Estella, however these characters may just be over-exaggerations. They may still be relevant on a mild level, for instance with heartbreak. Getting your heart broken is a disastrous experience and can change someone’s life forever and Miss Havisham is an excellent example. What I found interesting during the Socratic seminar was that many people brought up the fact that Miss Havisham is actually keeping herself from moving on. She’s trying to give herself the illusion that it is still her wedding day and everything is going to be ok, but in reality she’s a mess and needs to try and move on. Nowadays there's most likely a lot of people who can relate to this (not to such an extreme level), so here's an article on how to get over heartbreak.
http://www.thehopeline.com/35-getting-over-a-broken-heart-part-4/
I agree that the video portrays Miss Havisham quite well, how ever in my opinion you could clearly tell that the actress was far younger than the character she was acting as.
DeleteI disagree about the video portraying miss Havisham like she really is in the novel. I feel she should've been much older looking and louder and meaner towards pip like she seemed in the book. But, I liked your other points that were brought up about Miss Havisham being a good example of a terrible break up situation.
DeleteI agree that the setting was well developed but I feel that the actress could have been portrayed older to match the description from the book. Also, I agree that Miss Havisham is good example of being in and how she reacts to a break up situation.
Delete
ReplyDeletePortraying the Insane Miss Havisham
In both the makeup tutorial and the clip from the movie, the character of Miss Havisham is shown very well. The casting choice for Miss Havisham in my opinion was a smart choice because the actress has played many odd characters before and is really able to portray an insane character well. Pips casting seemed to fit the book as well because in the video the boy looks young, scrawny, and quite ordinary which is how Pip is described in Great Expectations. As for the choice of Estella, I feel like she should have been a little younger and acting more cold hearted. The setting on the other hand fit the description of the Satis house perfectly. It was dark and gloomy and also was covered in cobwebs. Also in the video you get a glimpse of the clock and all of Miss Havisham's wedding accessories. The setting really made the mood dark and depressing which is exactly how it is in the book. Most of the female characters in the book are very extreme characters. Most of them are described as cruel. Mrs. Joe was harsh and cruel and Estella is coldhearted and unable to love anyone. Then Miss Havisham is plain insane. None of the female characters seem to be reasonable or friendly in any way. I think this shows a sexist outlook on women and I don’t believe it was just the view of Charles Dickens but of everyone in that time. Women still today are stereotyped as moody and somewhat insane and Dickens shows this in a very extreme way through his book. The female characters in Great Expectations are all very strong characters whose personality traits you will remember. So even though females in the book are not portrayed well, I think they have a huge part in the book. One interesting point brought up in the Socratic Seminar is whether Miss Havisham wants her fiance to return or not. She has a love hate relationship shown in the poem and it was talked about how that she wants him to come back but to torture him whether it be physically or mentally. The following link is to a biography of the actress who plays Miss Havisham
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000307/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm
I agree that the character choice of Miss Havisham in the clip was pretty spot on and described her as showing an insane actor. I also agreed ans said in my post that he female characters do not have a nice personality and are pretty pitiful.
DeleteI totally agree that the set for the Satis house was perfect, and captured all of the eerie and foreboding qualities Dickens describe in the book. I also thought it was interesting how you pointed out that most if not all of the female characters have fatal flaws in their character, or are just completely terrible people. I also agree that despite the ruining character traits you mentioned, the characters play a huge role in the development of the story, especially in the creation of Pip's expectations, and changes in his outlook on the world.
DeleteI agree that the character that was chosen to play as Miss Havisham did a nice job and that described how Pip looked like. I also agree with your interpretation of how Dickens portrayed all women during that time.
DeleteI believe that like you had said, Pip was casted perfectly with the scrawny features and sort of rugged look and it is what I saw in the book.
DeleteHavisham trapped in the past
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion the casting choices in the video could have been slightly improved, I believe that an elderly woman should have played the role of Miss Havisham and that having a white face didn’t really make the actress look old. Also I feel that Pip and Estella didn’t put very much effort into their parts. However the appearance of Pip fit very well with the story, with Pip being a young thin boy. The background of the video was within Miss Havisham’s house where the environment was dark, disorganized, and gloomy. The video took place after Mrs. Joe set up for Pip to entertain Miss Havisham. The video starts with Pumblechook dropping Pip off to entertain Miss Havisham, Pip is then guided by Estella to Miss Havisham’s room where he finds her sitting in her old wedding dress. The setting of the video is a very good representation of Miss Havisham’s home from the novel, including the detail that all the clocks are stopped at the same time, giving the reader or viewer the feeling that time has almost completely stopped within Miss Havisham’s home. As said in the socratic seminar on the poem Havisham, Miss Havisham can’t move on from the day she received the letter from her fiance and while throughout the poem she talks about wanting to kill him, she still struggles to move on and has left everything the way it was on that day as if she were reliving it. Miss Havisham, even years after her fiance left, she still desires revenge and even still wears her wedding dress. Over all the years of sadness and anger Miss Havisham still “loves to hate” her fiance and instead of moving on, devotes her life to wishing and waiting for vengeance.
I agree, Miss Havisham has a love/hate feeling toward her ex fiance.
Deletei think that they could have established the setting of the film could have been more detailed, and that they did not convey her ruined wedding enough, it would just seem confusing for someone watching who has not read the book.
DeleteMiss Havisham does have a love and hate relationship with her ex fiance because you can never fully recover from a lost love like that, and in a way she will always love him. However, she hates him for what he has done and says that she would never forgive him.
DeleteMiss Havisham
ReplyDeleteI think that the casting choices in the clip that I watched were somewhat the right ones because the person who played Miss Havisham did a very good job on acting a bit odd. like Miss Havisham does in the book. However, I imagined Miss Havisham to be older and not so young. On other hand, I think the person who played pip did a very good job looking confused to Miss Havisham's appearance, home, and behavior. The person playing Pip also did a good job at being nervous and a little frightened of what Miss Havisham will tell his sister about him, The background/setting was also good. The person who played Miss Havisham was wearing the wedding dress and the clocks were stopped and also the room was very dark which created a mysterious feeling. Based on the discussions that happened during the socratic seminar I would like to say that MIss Havisham is the one to blame because she’s the one who’s stuck in that time period and won’t move on. I also don’t think her idea of seeking revenge on all men is fair because she was only betrayed by one men (her ex fiance) and it;s not fair saying that all men are the same. Miss Havisham has the chance to move and start her life again but I feel like her heart was broken so much that there’s nothing that can happen for it to be fixed again. Why does she has so much hatred on all men just because she was betrayed by one. Do you think Miss Havisham was always “odd” or is it all because of being left on her wedding day? Below is a link to a cartoon of Miss Havisham ripping a guy’s heart out and her “evil” conscious telling her to. http://media1.shmoop.com/media/covers/literature/Character_MissHavisham_GreatExpactations.png
I think the casting choices for the most part were good choices. Pip seems to be the right age and looks as he was described in the book. Estella seems the appropriate age and to Pip is beautiful. However, Miss. Havisham appears younger in the clip rather than told in the book. I had expected and wished that Miss. Havisham was much older. As for the setting and background it all seems to be perfect. The house is dark and gloomy and you see the wedding things that were described in the book. Miss Havisham is in her wedding dress and everything. Every Time a woman is mentioned in the book they appear to be at a house and doing house work. I think Dickens is trying to say that women should be in the house and doing house chores and not going outside to do much. All their personalities seem to be quiet or reserved in a way but uptight. They seem to hate their lives and are very rude and pitiful. During the Socratic seminar it was brought up a lot that Miss Havisham is miserable because she was left on her marriage date and she is living in the past. It was also brought up that it was her fault that she dwelled on what happened rather than moving on and that is why she is miserable and pitiful.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.shmoop.com/great-expectations/miss-havisham.html
DeleteThis link gives a better in depth character sketch of Miss Havisham.
I agree that Miss Havisham does not seem to be the person that she is when reading the book. I also said the same about the setting being perfect. Also, Your points on Dickens and all women were very interesting.
Deletei also agree that miss havisham seems younger, and more energetic than she was portrayed in the book.
DeleteIn the book Miss Havisham is considered dark, old , and creepy. An older character could have been a more accurate representation in my opinion.
DeleteWith the casting choices, I feel they casted everyone in the clip well except for one person, Miss Havisham. I pictured miss Havisham as a much older and cruel person. The woman they choose to play her in the movie I feel is way too young to portray Miss Havisham. Also, I thought she was way too kind to be Miss Havisham. Her character in the novel is much more creepy. They should have chose someone older to play Miss Havisham in the movie. They also should've made her speech more dramatic and more like the real Miss Havisham in the novel. However, I feel the setting and background in the movie were spot on to what I pictured from the novel. The inside of miss Havisham's house is dark and dimly lit causing a mood of fear and spookiness. To add all the small details are also in the scenes from the movie. For example the clock stopped at 9:20, the candlesticks, and the mirror she sits in front of. Overall I feel the setting in the movie was identical to the setting in the novel. During our Socratic seminars, a point that came up multiple times was that Miss Havisham "loves to hate her fiancé”. What I can pull from this is that although she hates him for leaving her on her wedding day, she still loves him and doesn't want to forget about him. This can be proven by how she has all the stuff from her wedding and wears the wedding dress every day of her life. But, she also hates the man for what he had done and despises all men because of it. She now treats men horribly no matter who they are. To add, Miss Havisham is also forcing this feeling on a Stella causing her not to like men either. Her mixed feelings of love and hate affect multiple people in her life. One question that I have though, is why can't she just love him or just hate him? What causes her to mix these two and force her hate on to other people? To conclude, this clip from the movie helped me view the setting and some of the characters from the novel better.
ReplyDeleteHere is a link to a picture that I believe looks more like Miss Havisham, http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02062/Margaret-Leighton_2062993i.jpg
i think that the characters in this clip portray the characters in the book well by highlighting their personality traits. this is exemplified by the way Mrs. havisham is irritable and jumpy. this also is shown by the way pip is shy and hesitates when Mrs. Havisham asks him to do something. this character selection also tes in with the scenery of the havisham household. it shows the conditions in which Mrs Havisham lives, and how eerie it is. from this clip and from the book, Dickens portrays women as crazy, mean, and disrespectful to others. this shows that he had an unfair generalization of women in much the same way Mrs. Havisham has an unfair view of men. i think that Dickens created these bad personalities for these characters because of his own biased opinion on the female gender. i think that it is odd how similar the way he characterizes women and the way Mrs havisham characterizes men are. this may be on purpose, and Dickens may be connecting his own views in the form of Mrs. havisham’s. something that was said in the socratic seminar that i found interesting was how Mrs havisham used ugly colored words like puce. this is not very notable from the clip we just watched, and i think that it should have been included into the clip to really exaggerate mrs havisham’s opinions on the world after her fiance left her. on the other hand, they could have used other, nicer colors to show how mrs havishams views were unfounded and wrong. something that i noticed within the film was that they did not really show much of the scenery that would further indicate Mrs havisham’s insanity. it would be better if the film included the clocks all stopped, or the detail of how old and stained mrs havisham’s dress is.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.cliffsnotes.com/literature/g/great-expectations/character-analysis/miss-havisham this is a website that describes miss havisham more in depth
DeleteI have also found a website that gives further information about how Dickens portrayed women: http://exec.typepad.com/greatexpectations/women-in-great-expectations.html
DeletePortraying Miss Havisham
ReplyDeleteAfter watching the short clips, I believe that everything in the scene replicates what is in Great Expectations, but their are some exclusions. First, I pictured Miss Havisham to look older with wrinkles on her face and her hair to be grey from all of the stress she went through. Also, I feel like she was too kind because I pictured her to have a more raspy voice and be more demanding. Although, the actress that portrayed Miss Havisham did a good job, but they could have chosen someone older to match the description in Great Expectations. Another thing is that Pip is what I imagined to be small, short, scrawny since he came from a poor household. Lastly, the setting of the Satis House was also everything I imagined from being gloomy and dreary from having only the candles lit and Miss Havisham staring into the mirror and in her wedding dress. Also the clock is stopped with everything from her wedding day. Even though Dickens describe women with personality traits he gave them poor ones. Miss Havisham has many poor traits as she had her heartbroken and now she wants to teach her view on men to teach her lesson that all men are bad. During the Socratic Seminar, many people had the idea that Miss Havisham puts herself into this situation by living in the past and believes that everything will be okay and that her lover will come back for her. She has everything that was set for her wedding day and she is only making herself unhappy. At the same time she loves/hates her lover as she wants to get revenge and also wants to get back with him because she loves to hate her ex lover as it changes her view and have a biased decision that all men are bad people.
http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/dickens/ge/steinberg3.html
Women’s Oppression
ReplyDeleteI believe that Miss Havisham only uses Estella as a way of revenge, to draw Pip into thinking that a chance to gain Estella’s admiration was possible. Only to crush Pip’s heart when his assumptions about Estella are wrong as if to get back at men for what happened at her wedding day. She moves and controls Estella like her own knight on a chessboard to get revenge on all men almost like a coping mechanism. From the video clip we can see that Estella comes at Miss Havisham’s every beckon call, like a robotic servant, to which Estella lays by her side and is pet like a cat. Which leads me to wonder if Miss Havisham cares about Estella or if Estella just remains to be a pet or a thing to possibly distract her from the pain. Dickens gives Estella characteristics of one with a cold heart and an attitude towards everyone, because she was never given love nor affection from Miss Havisham and he is possibly trying to generalize women. Associating these behaviors with women as if they all act this way, where they’re quite controlling, bossy, crazy, with a dose of attitude and a smidge of drama. Miss Havisham and Estella are still relative with women today because women are still sometimes seen as crazy, bossy, and overly dramatic. Women have come a long way yet continue to face a bias that some men have put down upon women that they all act a certain way, that we don’t differ from each other, and that we can’t be independent. During those times it was even worse, and Charles Dickens, being a realist writer, picked up on these struggles women have. He put such messages of their struggles in his works of literature and through the personalities of characters such as Miss Havisham and Estella.
Here is a link to another actress who played Miss Havisham: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/4Z8z3K8d16RDNHRqyr1bwHW/miss-havisham
Havisham
ReplyDeleteIn the clip, I think Helena Boham Carter was a great choice to play Miss Havisham. As an English actress, she plays mostly eccentric and dark roles as that is the definition of Miss Havisham. Although the Pip and Estella were not portrayed how I picture them when reading it.
The background and setting was exactly what I imagine. The light was eery and everything was like walking through a horror movie. However, Miss Havishams dress looked a little too fresh and crisp as it was described in the book to be yellowing and almost as if fabric could decay.
In Great Expectations, the two main characters that are females are Miss Havisham and Mrs. Joe. Both are seen as out of their minds by the readers. Mrs. Joe who is a harsh control freak, brutalizes Pip as a young child (and her husband as well) and as said many a times "brought him up by hand". Miss Havisham is a heart broken lunatic who wishes to destroy the male sex because of the tragic experience she had. Dickens may be trying to convey and generalize through the characterization of both Mrs. Joe and Miss Havisham that all women overreact and in essence are crazy. Yes, women are passionate and act out sometimes yet it's a little bit of a stretch to portray and group all women into being out of control.
Miss Havisham and Mrs. Joe are both located at home. Although Mrs. Joe is a strong factor in Pips life she isn't seen anywhere but the house holding it down. Joe gets the money for the household. Miss Havisham is seen in the house basically deteriorating in her own filth and sorrow.
Following the Socratic Seminar, I feel like all of the groups answered most of the questions and pieced it apart to make it more understandable.
Here's a link to the actress who played Miss Havisham in the 1946 making of "Great Expectations"
https://www.google.com/search?q=miss+havisham&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#hl=en-us&q=miss+havisham+movie+&mie=e%2C%2CMartita%20Hunt%2CH4sIAAAAAAAAAONgFuLUz9U3MKsqNqtSAjONK6rMC7R4fPPLMlND8h2TS_KLAKm2D-QmAAAA
Miss Havisham
ReplyDeleteIn the video, Miss Havisham was portrayed perfectly by the actress. She was dark and strange just as I pictured Miss Havisham to be. Another thing that I found to be portrayed well was the setting. The atmosphere reminded me of a horror movie and only one thing about the clip was off in my opinion. Miss Havisham’s dress seemed to clean to be realistic if she has worn it everyday for years.
Miss Havisham used Pip in my opinion because she led him to believe that he would one day marry Estella. However, that was never the case and it was as if Miss Havisham was intending to get revenge on all men by hurting Pip. Estella does not treat men any better on the other hand. She uses them as well and treats them cruelly. This is because she grew up being told that men were horrible and will just break your heart.
Miss Havisham installed this way of thinking into Estella, but Miss Havisham does not need to live this way. She could have moved on or moved into a different house. Instead she constantly relives the moment her fiance broke her heart. In the socratic seminar someone mentioned that if she had just moved out of that house that she had such bad memories in, that maybe she could move on from what had happened to her. The only way she will be happy is if she changes the way she lives and becomes more open minded that not all men will do this to her. Ina way she does not want her fiance back because of the pain he caused her. However she will always still have feelings for him since you never forget our first love. In this picture, it explains how important a first love is, even if it does not work out.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiwwIarqvHKAhWCVz4KHaUICWQQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2Fpin%2F431993789227605365%2F&psig=AFQjCNE03z8rZ0y1vFo8cTS2VuEyqJBvgQ&ust=1455335750196788